Anyone else not a fan of...

[Seasiu]

...the Vanguard /con system? Taken from this article: http://vanguard.tentonhammer.com/ind...lay&ceid= 480

Seems every mob will have 1-6 dots to tell players whether it's safe to try killing them or not. I can't say what I think about it without biasing the thread and being accused of "hating" the game or somesuch.

However this system wasn't used in EQ and we survived. We took the occasional death to an under-con mob and learned from it. It seems now the UI will do the learning for you...

Thoughts?

[rellix]

It's nothing new really - EQ2 has been using a similar system from the beginning and it doesn't hurt that game much.

I mean, yes, I like not knowing exactly how strong a mob is, but it doesn't hurt to have a general idea.

[Seasiu]

Originally Posted by rellix

It's nothing new really - EQ2 has been using a similar system from the beginning and it doesn't hurt that game much.

I mean, yes, I like not knowing exactly how strong a mob is, but it doesn't hurt to have a general idea.

You could take this path to its logical conclusion:

Tell the player (via the UI) all the mob stats:
HP
Damage
AEs
Resistances

It's not far away, I tell ya! So when a 4th gen MMO starts doing these things, remember where you heard it first :p

[Ratama]

I'm not that bothered about Vanguard's con system, personally. I think WoW does it fine with having the "Elites" mark, and would prefer that over there being several dots to give you an idea of the mob's strength.

At the end of the day, though, it seems like a minor pet peeve to me -- Just put some black tape over it or pretend it's not there, if you really want the unknown element that bad ;)

[Jiamhr]

It's ok, I'm not uspet about it.


I like EQ's normal-easy con system tho. =)
I'd be happy with that...

[Jerrith]

The main idea behind it is that it allow us to present reasonable challenge indicators without requiring you to learn some sort of conversion scheme. Everyone can solo an even level, 2 dot NPC. Being able to solo something that is even to your level feels good. What does that mean for groups? Well, either we have groups fight stuff that is many levels above them (which has its own balance issues) or we provide a second indicator, of its difficulty within its level.

Also note: the dot number is not telling you exactly how hard the NPC is. There are a number of other factors that come into play as well, so just because you were able to solo a 3 dot gnoll in one area, you may not be able to solo an equal level 3 dot salamander in another area. The salamander can be tougher, with more hp, a greater DPS output, and a give a greater exp reward when killed.

[Keluven]

Originally Posted by Jerrith

Also note: the dot number is not telling you exactly how hard the NPC is.

Variety is the spice of life, and so is a little risk. Thanks for elaborating!

[nailfoot]

Originally Posted by Jerrith

The main idea behind it is that it allow us to present reasonable challenge indicators without requiring you to learn some sort of conversion scheme. Everyone can solo an even level, 2 dot NPC. Being able to solo something that is even to your level feels good. What does that mean for groups? Well, either we have groups fight stuff that is many levels above them (which has its own balance issues) or we provide a second indicator, of its difficulty within its level.

Also note: the dot number is not telling you exactly how hard the NPC is. There are a number of other factors that come into play as well, so just because you were able to solo a 3 dot gnoll in one area, you may not be able to solo an equal level 3 dot salamander in another area. The salamander can be tougher, with more hp, a greater DPS output, and a give a greater exp reward when killed.

This is great news! So, another nod to VG if it really works like this! I, too, like only having an "idea" if I can beat a mob, knida like going into a bar. You notice the skinny little wimp at the bar and the big ol' lumberjack in the corner. Your /con tells you to fight the wimp, but dude, is he EVER an undercon!!

[Etrigan]

Originally Posted by Jerrith

The main idea behind it is that it allow us to present reasonable challenge indicators without requiring you to learn some sort of conversion scheme. Everyone can solo an even level, 2 dot NPC. Being able to solo something that is even to your level feels good. What does that mean for groups? Well, either we have groups fight stuff that is many levels above them (which has its own balance issues) or we provide a second indicator, of its difficulty within its level.

Also note: the dot number is not telling you exactly how hard the NPC is. There are a number of other factors that come into play as well, so just because you were able to solo a 3 dot gnoll in one area, you may not be able to solo an equal level 3 dot salamander in another area. The salamander can be tougher, with more hp, a greater DPS output, and a give a greater exp reward when killed.

Well it's like in WoW.. An Elite is not an Elite is not an Elite. My 60 Mage can take out the first two pulls in Scholo easy, even those are elites, but they take a lot less work and strategy to kill than say.. Hederine Slayers in Winterspring.

I like Vanguard's plans for their con system though. Makes you think about attacking something before you do it. :D

[Tudana]

Originally Posted by Seasiu

You could take this path to its logical conclusion:

Tell the player (via the UI) all the mob stats:
HP
Damage
AEs
Resistances

It's not far away, I tell ya! So when a 4th gen MMO starts doing these things, remember where you heard it first :p

probably wont have to wait for 4th gen..i`m sure Lucy will have it set up soon enough :)